I started working years ago to engage large datacenters, learn what their problems are and try to craft solutions for their problems. It’s taken years, but we engaged them, learned, changed how we thought about storage and began creating solutions that are being deployed at scale.
We’ve started to do the same with the Chinese Internet giants. They’re growing at an incredible rate. They have similar problems, but it’s surprising how different their solution approaches are. Each one is unique. And we’re constantly learning from these guys.
So to wrap up the blog series on my interview with CIO & CEO magazine, here are the last two questions to explain a bit more.
CEO & CIO: Please use examples to tell the stories about the forward-looking technologies and architectures that LSI has jointly developed with Internet giants.
While our host bus adapters (HBAs) and MegaRAID® solutions have been part of the hyperscale Internet companies’ infrastructure since the beginning, we have only recently worked very closely with them to drive joint innovation. In 2009 I led the first LSI engagement with what we then called “mega datacenters.” It took a while to understand what they were doing and why. By 2010 we realized there were specialized needs, and began to imagine new hardware products that worked with these datacenters. Out of this work came the realization that flash was important for efficiency and capability, and the “invention” of LSI® Nytro™ product portfolio. (More are in the pipeline). We have worked closely with hyperscale datacenters to evolve and tune these solutions, to where Nytro products have become the backbone of their main revenue platforms. Facebook has been a vitally important partner in evolving our Nytro platform – teaching us what was truly needed, and now much of their infrastructure runs on LSI products. These same products are a good fit for other hyperscale customers, and we are slowly winning many of the large ones.
Looking forward, we are partnered with several Internet giants in the U.S. and China to work on cold storage solutions, and more importantly shared DAS (Distributed DAS: D-DAS) solutions. We have been demonstrating prototypes. These solutions enable pooled architectures and rack scale architecture, and can be made to work tightly with software-defined datacenters (SDDCs). They simplify management and resource allocation – making task deployment more efficient and easier. Shared DAS solutions increase infrastructure efficiency and improves lifecycle management of components. And they have the potential to radically improve application performance and infrastructure costs.
Looking further into the future, we see even more radical changes in silicon supporting transport protocols and storage models, and in rack scale architectures supporting storage and pooled memory. And cold storage is a huge though, some would say, boring problem that we are also focused on – storing lots of data for free and using no power to do it… but I really can’t talk about any of that.
CEO & CIO: LSI maintains good contact with big Internet companies in China. What are the biggest differences between dealing with these Internet enterprises and dealing with traditional partners?
Yes, we have a very good relationship with large Chinese Internet companies. In fact, I will be visiting Tencent, Alibaba and Baidu in a few weeks. One of the CTOs I would like to say is a friend. That is, we have fun talking together about the future.
These meetings have evolved. The first meetings LSI had about two years ago were sales calls, or support for OEM storage solutions. These accomplished very little. Once we began visiting as architects speaking to architects, real dialogs began. Our CEO has been spending time in China meeting with these Internet companies both to learn, and to make it clear that they are important to us, and we want a chance to solve their problems. But the most interesting conversations have been the architectural ones. There have been very clear changes in the two years I have traveled within China – from standard enterprise to hyperscale architectures.
We’ve received fascinating feedback on architecture, use, application profiles, platforms, problems and goals. We have strong engagement with the U.S. Internet giants. At the highest level, the Chinese Internet companies have similar problems and goals. But the details quickly diverge because of revenue per user, resources, power availability, datacenter ownership and Internet company age. The use of flash is very different.
The Chinese Internet giants are at an amazing change point. Most are ready for explosive growth of infrastructure and deployment of cloud services. Most are changing from standard OEM systems and architectures to self-designed hyperscale systems after experimenting with Scorpio and microserver deployments. Several, like JD.com (an Amazon-like company) are moving from hosted to self-built infrastructure. And there seems to be a general realization that the datacenter has changed from a compute-centric model to a dataflow model, where storage and network dictate how much work gets done more than the CPU does. These giants are leveraging their experience and capability to move very quickly, and in a few cases are working to create true pooled rack level architectures much like Facebook and Google have started in the U.S. In fact, Baidu is similar to Facebook in this approach, but is different in its longer term goals for the architecture.
The Chinese companies are amazingly diverse, even within one datacenter, and arguments on architectural direction are raging within these Internet giants – it’s healthy and exciting. However, the innovations that are coming are similar to those developed by large U.S. Internet companies. Personally I have found these Internet companies much more exciting and satisfying to work with than traditional OEMs. The speed and cadence of advancement, the recognition of problems and their importance, the focus on efficiency and optimization have been much more exciting. And the youthful mentality and view to problems, without being burdened by “the way we’ve always done this” has been wonderful.
Also see these blogs of mine over the past year, where you can read more about some of these changes:
“Postcard from Shenzhen: China’s hyperscale datacenter growth, mixed with a more traditional approach”
“China in the clouds, again”
“China: A lot of talk about resource pooling, a better name for disaggregation”
Or see them (and others) all here.
Summary: So it’s taken years, but we engaged U.S. Internet giants, learned about their problems, changed how we thought about storage and began creating solutions that are now being deployed at scale. And we’re constantly learning from these guys. Constantly, because their problems are constantly changing.
We’ve now started to do the same with the Chinese Internet giants. They have similar problems, and will need similar solutions, but they are not the same. And just like the U.S. Internet giants, each one is unique.
Tags: Alibaba, Amazon, Baidu, CEO & CIO Magazine, China, cloud services, cold storage, D-DAS, DAS, datacenter, datacenter ecosystem, direct attached storage, distributed DAS, Facebook, flash, flash storage, Google, HBA, host bus adapter, hyperscale datacenter, Internet, JD.com, MegaRAID, OEM, original equipment manufacturer, Scorpio, Tencent
I’ve just been to China. Again. It’s only been a few months since I was last there.
I was lucky enough to attend the 5th China Cloud Computing Conference at the China National Convention Center in Beijing. You probably have not heard of it, but it’s an impressive conference. It’s “the one” for the cloud computing industry. It was a unique view for me – more of an inside-out view of the industry. Everyone who’s anyone in China’s cloud industry was there. Our CEO, Abhi Talwalkar, had been invited to keynote the conference, so I tagged along.
First, the air was really hazy, but I don’t think the locals considered it that bad. The US consulate iPhone app said the particulates were in the very unhealthy range. Imagine looking across the street. Sure, you can see the building there, but the next one? Not so much. Look up. Can you see past the 10th floor? No, not really. The building disappears into the smog. That’s what it was like at the China National Convention Center, which is part of the same Olympics complex as the famous Birdcage stadium: http://www.cnccchina.com/en/Venues/Traffic.aspx
I had a fantastic chance to catch up with a university friend, who has been living in Beijing since the 90’s, and is now a venture capitalist. It’s amazing how almost 30 years can disappear and you pick up where you left off. He sure knows how to live. I was picked up in his private limo, whisked off to a very well-known restaurant across the city, where we had a private room and private waitress. We even had some exotic, special dishes that needed to be ordered at least a day in advance. Wow. But we broke Chinese tradition and had imported beer in honor of our Canadian education.
Sizing up China’s cloud infrastructure
The most unusual meeting I attended was an invitation-only session – the Sino-American roundtable on cloud computing. There were just about 40 people in a room – half from the US, half from China. Mostly what I learned is that the cloud infrastructure in China is fragmented, and probably sub-scale. And it’s like that for a reason. It was difficult to understand at first, but I think I’ve made sense of it.
I started asking why to friends and consultants and got some interesting answers. Essentially different regional governments are trying to capture the cloud “industry” in their locality, so they promote activity, and they promote creation of new tools and infrastructure for that. Why reuse something that’s open source and works if you don’t have to and you can create high-tech jobs? (That’s sarcasm, by the way.) Many technologists I spoke with felt this will hold them back, and that they are probably 3-5 years behind the US. As well, each government-run industry specifies the datacenter and infrastructure needed to be a supplier or ecosystem partner with them, and each is different. The national train system has a different cloud infrastructure from the agriculture department, and from the shipping authority, etc… and if you do business with them – that is you are part of their ecosystem of vendors, then you use their infrastructure. It all spells fragmentation and sub-scale. In contrast, the Web 2.0 / social media companies seem to be doing just fine.
Baidu was also showing off its open rack. It’s an embodiment of the Scorpio V1 standard, which was jointly developed with Tencent, Alibaba and China Telecom. It views this as a first experiment, and is looking forward to V2, which will be a much more mature system.
I was also lucky to have personal meetings with general managers,chief architects and effective CTOs of the biggest cloud companies in China. What did I learn? They are all at an inflexion point. Many of the key technologists have experience at American Web 2.0 companies, so they’re able to evolve quickly, leveraging their industry knowledge. They’re all working to build or grow their own datacenters, their own infrastructure. And they’re aggressively expanding products, not just users, so they’re getting a compound growth rate.
Here’s a little of what I learned. In general, there is a trend to try and simplify infrastructure, harmonize divergent platforms, and deploy more infrastructure by spending less on each unit. (In general, they don’t make as much per user as American companies, but they have more users). As a result they are more cost-focused than US companies. And they are starting to put more emphasis on operational simplicity in general. As one GM described it to me – “Yes, techs are inexpensive in China for maintainence, but more often than not they make mistakes that impact operations.” So we (LSI) will be focussing more on simplifying management and maintainence for them.
Baidu’s biggest Hadoop cluster is 20k nodes. I believe that’s as big as Yahoo’s – and it is the originator of Hadoop. Baidu has a unique use profile for flash – it’s not like the hyperscale datacenters in the US. But Baidu is starting to consume a lot. Like most other hyperscale datacenters, it is working on storage erasure coding across servers, racks and datacenters, and it is trying to make a unified namespace across everything. One of its main interests is architecture at datacenter level, harmonizing the various platforms and looking for the optimum at the datacenter level. In general, Baidu is very proud of the advances it has made, and it has real confidence in its vision and route forward, and from what I heard, its architectural ambitions are big.
JD.com (which used to be 360buy.com) is the largest direct ecommerce company in China and (only) had about $10 billion (US) in revenue last year, with 100% CAGR growth. As the GM there said, its growth has to slow sometime, or in 5 years it’ll be the biggest company in the world. I think it is the closest equivalent to Amazon there is out there, and they have similar ambitions. They are in the process of transforming to a self-built, self-managed datacenter infrastructure. It is a company I am going to keep my eyes on.
Tencent is expanding into some interesting new businesses. Sure, people know about the Tencent cloud services that the Chinese government will be using, but Tencent also has some interesting and unique cloud services coming. Let’s just say even I am interested in using them. And of course, while Tencent is already the largest Web 2.0 company in China, its new services promise to push it to new scale and new markets.
Extra! Extra! Read all about it …
And then there was press. I had a very enjoyable conversation with Yuan Shaolong, editor at WatchStor, that I think ran way over. Amazingly – we discovered we have the same favorite band, even half a world away from each other. The results are here, though I’m not sure if Google translate messed a few things up, or if there was some miscommunication, but in general, I think most of the basics are right: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://tech.watchstor.com/storage-module-144394.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drobert%2Bober%2BLSI%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1346%26bih%3D619
I just keep learning new things every time I go to China. I suspect it has as much to do with how quickly things are changing as new stuff to learn. So I expect it won’t be too long until I go to China, again…
Tags: Abhi Talwalkar, Alibaba, Amazon, Baidu, China, China Cloud Computing Conference, China National Convention Center, China Telecom, datacenter, Hadoop, hyperscale, JD.com, WatchStor, web 2.0, Yahoo